New user questions.

[Paladin]

Hey all!

I am just trying out UE for the first time. I have only been playing with it for a day or so but have a few questions already .

I am sorry for all these questions up front but I would like to know a few things before I buy this.

First is it still supported? Will there be more updates to it?
I ask as I am not seeing any dates listed along with the Release History.

I can not see a normal queue view that I am used to from other programs. I see I can look at the tasks view and undock it to the right side. This is close, and that gives me a queue like view when set on the articles tab but is there one view I can see everything from? I would like to see a list of everything I am downloading, including headers. I would like to be able to even change the priority on anything queued including headers, is this possible or do headers always get a separate priority thread?

Can I see all the tasks on the right like a queue along with a small window on the bottom that display the currently active files (Like docking the tasks and selecting the active tab?)

Are the automation abilities basically the watch lists?
I found the watch option and set up a few filters. I assume this the best way to do it?
When I add something to the watch list, what does it do on a match? I am not seeing anything flagged or moved to a place I that I can see.

Is there a way for it to move the matched files to a separate folder? I do not want to always have to actually download the matched files, I just want a matched folder of files I can go through and mark to DL or not..

The interface is a bit confusing but I am slowly learning it.

The tasksconsole does not show dates/times of the programs actions, is there a way to see this?

Is there a way to see the number of files and their size when I select multiple files aside from selecting them and looking at properties? Maybe see that info on the fly at the bottom near the bandwidth?
I ask as it is good to know as you select a bunch of files the size they all are.

What does the scheduler actually do/offer? I see you can tell each “folder” to download more headers at a user set interval. I would have thought this would be a scheduled option.

Is there any DB maintenance that needs done by the user? Can I set a time that it can compact or check the DB each night?

Is there a good FAQ that I missed?

Is there a way that when downloading that UE can create and DL to folders the same name as the groups they are from? It would be better than everything just dumped into one big folder and easier than telling the program manually to DL this and that into whatever folder.

Is there a way to start the program with user specified “open views”? I would like the tasks to show up on the right with articles selected like a queue since there is no real queue listing.

Is there a way for “Show collections” to automatically be selected when starting the program AND when opening a new folder? As it seems now I have to open a folder then re-select that each time.

When opening a folder and I accidentally open another one of the same it opens. Maybe have it ignore duplicates.

[Josef K]

OK, a lot of questions and I don't have a lot of time for a reply but will attempt to answer as many as I can to some degree.

First is it still supported? Will there be more updates to it?
I ask as I am not seeing any dates listed along with the Release History.

UE is very much still in development. Alex is the developer - click the link to see his last post was yesterday.

I can not see a normal queue view that I am used to from other programs. I see I can look at the tasks view and undock it to the right side. This is close, and that gives me a queue like view when set on the articles tab but is there one view I can see everything from? I would like to see a list of everything I am downloading, including headers. I would like to be able to even change the priority on anything queued including headers, is this possible or do headers always get a separate priority thread?

In the Task Manager, articles and headers are separate, along with other tasks. I never found this to be an issue but maybe your needs differ. I'm afraid for now you'll have to switch to the tab you need. Articles and header priorities are set in Properties->Tasks->Relative chance to run (drag the sliders, to the right = higher priority).

Can I see all the tasks on the right like a queue along with a small window on the bottom that display the currently active files (Like docking the tasks and selecting the active tab?)

You can drag around and reposition the Task Manager to anywhere you need (within reason) and leave it on a particular tab. Not entirely sure what you're wanting from this - maybe an example of another program you're used to would help me.

Are the automation abilities basically the watch lists?
I found the watch option and set up a few filters. I assume this the best way to do it?
When I add something to the watch list, what does it do on a match? I am not seeing anything flagged or moved to a place I that I can see.

This is too big for me to try to explain in the time I have at the moment.

Is there a way for it to move the matched files to a separate folder? I do not want to always have to actually download the matched files, I just want a matched folder of files I can go through and mark to DL or not..

It depends on how you get the articles. If you're downloading headers then you can right-click->Advanced->Export headers and save the resulting NZB to UE's Import directory, where it will be imported into UE's default Import group. A workaround but possible all the same. If you use the Search Service, all headers you select for import will head for whatever Import group you have created and assigned in the search bar.

The interface is a bit confusing but I am slowly learning it.

It's well worth sticking with it - you'll find the power and feature set dwarfs others in the long run.

The tasksconsole does not show dates/times of the programs actions, is there a way to see this?

The console is the newest addition to the feature set, consequently it hasn't had the time to mature due to user requests yet. So what you see is what you get for now - unless you ask Alex for your feature to be added.

Is there a way to see the number of files and their size when I select multiple files aside from selecting them and looking at properties? Maybe see that info on the fly at the bottom near the bandwidth?
I ask as it is good to know as you select a bunch of files the size they all are.

Yes, this has been requested before by others, including myself. However, small requests sometimes get overshadowed by larger issues at hand which must be fixed immediately (e.g. stability issues) and they may get forgotten in the process. So request it yourself and you'll be another voice to make the matter more pressing to Alex to add it.

What does the scheduler actually do/offer? I see you can tell each “folder” to download more headers at a user set interval. I would have thought this would be a scheduled option.

Alex says he left the scheduler in there pretty much because it was easy enough to do that and people used it. I personally use it for the simple reason that my girlfriend comes in from work and complains when I am using all the bandwidth when she wants to do some work at home. The scheduler remembers for me and then reenables my downloads later at night. I'm sure there can be other uses for it - or not - use it as you will or not at all.

Is there any DB maintenance that needs done by the user? Can I set a time that it can compact or check the DB each night?

Right-click the root of the Newsgroups tree and select Compact binary->Compact & free to do just that. The status bar will sate it's repairing but don't worry, it's just rebuilding the database and checking consistency.

Is there a good FAQ that I missed?

Try here, here and here (NewsPro biased but some parts are applicable to UE).

Is there a way that when downloading that UE can create and DL to folders the same name as the groups they are from? It would be better than everything just dumped into one big folder and easier than telling the program manually to DL this and that into whatever folder.

You can use the Download & save (Auto) options, although this uses the most common part of the subject line for all files selected that you choose to download.

Is there a way to start the program with user specified “open views”? I would like the tasks to show up on the right with articles selected like a queue since there is no real queue listing.

You can use Load or Persist in Properties->Newsgroups but these just load the groups into memory rather than open them at startup.

Is there a way for “Show collections” to automatically be selected when starting the program AND when opening a new folder? As it seems now I have to open a folder then re-select that each time.

Again, use Properties->Newsgroups and change each group you want to use collections in the dropdown list to the right of the dialogue.

When opening a folder and I accidentally open another one of the same it opens. Maybe have it ignore duplicates.

This is a feature by design. It's useful for filtering the same groups using different criteria for whatever purpose you need it for. However, an option you can, as always, ask Alex for.

Well, time to go for me for a while. I hope I answered in a manner you can understand - it has been a tad rushed...

[Paladin]

Hi Alex, nice to meet you so to speak

So far the program seems very cool.
I have been on the net a long time, since the early 90’s and I have used a LOT of various programs over the years. I was not really happy until I found a program called ZeoNews. The interface was really awesome. The DB had a lot of issues though. I paid for the program and one day it just disappeared. No more development! No reason., just gone. I was pissed as it had such potential.

I finally found a good replacement program that I love very much. It has really kick ass scheduling and automation abilities (this is its strong point) and a really good interface. It uses MySql for it’s DB, and that is fine and very stable, but it does take a long time to store headers and they take up a lot of HD space. The support for this program is just top notch, the guy responds right away and is always added peoples suggestions. I would stick with it but am always open minded to new software, you never know what you may find.

So just for kicks I am looking for another one that handles headers a bit faster and does not take a ton of HD space to store them but it has to come close at least in automation terms.

So I found this now.

What I basically need is a program that can pull in headers from selected groups on a scheduled basis. As headers come in it can automate and match ones I am interested in and move them to an area, like a folder, tab etc…, that I can look through them when I have time and select what I want to DL. Also having the ability to automatically DL certain ones is a must.

I would prefer for the program to do its own maintenance overnight so I do not have to tell it to compact etc… I would just like to let it run basically 24/7, auto moving and saving files.

I would like it to also be able to DL into folders named after the group they are from. This keeps things organized. I do see I can tell each filter a specific folder so that is a work around. It seems a bit clunky to have to set a filter up then assign it to each group the way you do, but I can get used to it. I am used to a separate page that I simply defined all my automations on. Worked very well and was easily changed and added to.

Can you automate a search against your search engine to match filters to automate that way? That would prevent having to even DL for every group.

I would like good support as well and so far you seem to provide this.

Can it basically do what I would like?

I am still playing with it but and so far like it overall.

Thanks for your time.

[alex]

as to the scheduled download i'm not sure you need it since there is no maintenance needed, when the program downloads headers the memory and processor usage remains low.

the mechanism which you can employ if you want the program to work only overnight is to set up scheduler to suspend tasks and set time intervals, then in watch/auto set auto get headers.

then auto get headers will start header tasks so header tasks will be queued then when active scheduler interval kicks in the program will download headers, mark articles for download matching your filters and save attachments to designated directories.

[Paladin]

I pretty much figured most things out now. There are still a lot of settings I do not understand but I have it working fairly well now.

I have it pulling in new headers on a regular basis just fine. I have filters set up to catch certain things and this is working fine.

The only thing I would like to know for now is when I set watch filters, it seems to DL them even though I only told it to watch. Save is unchecked on the left side as well as below the newsgroup list.

I just need to be able to somehow set the matched watched messages to be viewed ONLY somehow.

I need to figure out how to get the watched files to be moved to a folder or marked somehow so I can see what it matched overnight. Then I can pick and choose what I want to DL.

I do not want it to just download everything that it matches since I may not want it all. I just want it to match the watch filters and point them out to me somehow. Either by moving them to a folder or mark them somehow so I can load all the headers, using the global option, and filter on the ones that are matched. I am sure it works this way but cannot figure out how to view these yet.

Also how often should I do a compact and free? Can this be ran automatically on a nightly or semi-daily basis if needed? Weekly maybe?

Thanks for the help!

[alex]

as to an earlier questions i'm not sure about availability of watch for the search service so not to put too high load and keep the service affordable (the server itself has no problem to cope mostly connection considerations here).

as to zeonews (was it the name?) comparison i never would sell partially-working beta since it is not possible to predict development time required and user interest in that work so it may well prove to be something like running a scam, since taking money must mean finishing the work as well.

as to the watch question if you don't want to download either uncheck "watch" to ignore watch filters completely if you uncheck "save" it will download but not save, "watch" right now is synonim for "download".

as to mark somehow but not to download what could be done in theory (it is not currently implemented) is to replace the word "watch" with "download" and add another option "flag" so watched messages will be marked as flagged, but because i didn't want to overload the global storage i don't keep flagged messages there (to see them always in global view would mean to keep them separatedly from newsgroups so whether newsgroups are loaded or not they would be there, as it stands now you can see the flagged messages not marked for download/not having bodies etc. in a global view only if respective newsgroups are loaded).

so maybe the closest solution is then to check "watch" but set the download priority in watch filter to "mark for later download" range (properties->tasks) and "suspend article tasks marked for later download" (task menu), then you'll see all marked for download messages in the bottom of task manager queue, but the tasks won't start downloading until you change the articles priority higher than suspend for later download highest priority or uncheck the suspend for later download option.

[Paladin]

as to mark somehow but not to download what could be done in theory (it is not currently implemented) is to replace the word "watch" with "download" and add another option "flag" so watched messages will be marked as flagged, but because i didn't want to overload the global storage i don't keep flagged messages there (to see them always in global view would mean to keep them separatedly from newsgroups so whether newsgroups are loaded or not they would be there, as it stands now you can see the flagged messages not marked for download/not having bodies etc. in a global view only if respective newsgroups are loaded).

I agree that just flagging them like this is not a good approach.

The bad thing about the way you mention above is it cannot be sorted by subject so it makes It hard to look through all of these. I have a bunch of files all mixed together so even to flag them is hard as I have to go one at a time and pick and choose select. If I could sort by subject in the tasks--Articles then i could at least just flag the file set all together.

For true automation, instead of flagging watched headers, is it possible to simply create a virtual group like the "Import" messages and simply move the headers there?

If you want you can then have an option to also keep them in their respective groups and just create a copy of the headers there, or actually delete them from their main group and move them.

This way you can mark them for DL or delete them from there.

The other program I use allows you to set the automations to match the headers and move them accordingly to virtual workgroups of your choice. You can define as many as you like. You tell the automation (or watch) which virtual group to move matched files to, simple really. Then you have a bunch of workgroup, or folder in UE, of your making full of files. These workgroups also highlighted when new files were added so you knew to look for new ones in there since the last time you opened the folder, which then removes the highlight. This is really easy to do and worked great! I feel this is the best option as you can then have user defined groups for various types of files, like MP3, DVD etc...

However, if this is too hard to code then just moving all of them to one virtual group will do just fine for now. At least until the version after that one

Automation like this is a VERY import feature for me, and a lot of people, in a news program. It is what sets one program apart from being just another reader. Do you think this is something you can do in the very near future? I guess I am asking if this feature is something you ever wanted to do or is the current way all you ever intended?

I apologize if I am sound demanding at all, this is not my intent. I am just making suggestions, based on years of using these programs, of what is important to most users I read about, including myself. I cannot speak for the users of UE here of course.

It took years for programs to just start having the really cool features like this and setting themselves apart from the normal crowd. I really like this program so far and want to buy it, but if it has no future of improved automation then I may have to keep looking.

---------------------------------------

Speaking of Import section, mine says there are [17299 ] to the right of it and there are actually none in there, is this normal? I see no files and no filters are applied. How do I clear this section?

BTW I shut down UE and re-ran it yesterday and all my watched groups were missing, is this a bug? I had to re-select the newsgroups folder and re-add my filters on the left to the watch filters on the right. Just reporting in case it is a bug as the program did not end abruptly.

BTW seriously thanks for the hard work you obviously put into this and for listening to suggestions. It is really appreciated by us Usenet users.

[alex]

The bad thing about the way you mention above is it cannot be sorted by subject so it makes It hard to look through all of these.

how about using the new flag?

incoming headers are marked as new new.

edit menu->queued shows all queued. after you sorted out current messages you just press "mark all old" (bearded man icon in the toolbar).

then newly incoming automatically marked for download through watch messages will be marked as new.

so again you invoke edit menu->queued and then check "new" in the quick filter.

you only need to keep the option properties->general->mark all headers old on close groups unchecked (it is default).

as to custom groups, because of the huge usenet volumes and the ineffective way the usenet is used for posting binaries i wrote UE concentrating on efficient database (fault tolerance, low RAM consumption and processor usage), then when i had it working i took some features from my older newspro program although i had to rewrite the code as well.

in the import group probably those are deleted headers check "del" in the quick filter to see them.

with the lost settings all settings except for filter definitions in flt.dat are in reg.dat if you see something lost you can switch to older settings through exiting the program and renaming older files (see help notes on the home page but it is too late maybe), do you have properties->general->settings backup checked? nothing else except for the watch filters disappeared? - if settings file somehow got corrupted despite several layers of protection (it is also a good idea to check the partition for errors), it is highly unlikely only watch will be hit. also do you have any antiviruses which monitor the file system?

[Paladin]

The bad thing about the way you mention above is it cannot be sorted by subject so it makes It hard to look through all of these.

how about using the new flag?

incoming headers are marked as new new.

edit menu->queued shows all queued. after you sorted out current messages you just press "mark all old" (bearded man icon in the tool bar).

then newly incoming automatically marked for download through watch messages will be marked as new.

so again you invoke edit menu->queued and then check "new" in the quick filter.

you only need to keep the option properties->general->mark all headers old on close groups unchecked (it is default).

Hey I did not see that option, thanks. Probably tons of ways of doing things I just have not learned yet.

I can just use that to see everything marked lowest there. I won't even have to use the tasks-articles view, cool.
That may work, thanks. I even added a tool on the tool bar to help make this easy.

I think there are a few things that would still improve this for automation but for now this is a good work around.

in the import group probably those are deleted headers check "del" in the quick filter to see them.

Again, did not know this, sorry. That worked just fine, thanks!

with the lost settings all settings except for filter definitions in flt.dat are in reg.dat if you see something lost you can switch to older settings through exiting the program and renaming older files (see help notes on the home page but it is too late maybe), do you have properties->general->settings backup checked? nothing else except for the watch filters disappeared? - if settings file somehow got corrupted despite several layers of protection (it is also a good idea to check the partition for errors), it is highly unlikely only watch will be hit. also do you have any antiviruses which monitor the file system?

I use AVG on this computer. Yes the save setting is checked. Lets see if it does it again. The filters were there, just not associated to the watch list, weird.

[alex]

try to exclude at least the settings directory from the antivirus active monitoring.

maybe i'll make the older settings restoration automatic as well in additon to the settings backup, just now data in the file are protected on per field basis.

[alex]

if you evaluate a text capable newsreader first of all you should check whether performance (RAM+processor) on header volumes which you need is satisfactory.

usenet explorer is the only precendent when performance was boosted many times, and it proved to be quite a complicated task, so say the probability of a program sharply imroving its running characteristics is quite low.

with binary downloaders the probability is a bit higher since they are more easy to write and usually there is more user support.

zeonews was an example of this difficulty, it is easy to add many features working with small header volumes but it is very difficult later to resolve the database problems since it is like replacing a multistore building foundation.

say 3 years ago many people would ask for features which you mentioned but lately the trend is simple usage pattern, maybe because of influence of nzb and p2p where all those adornments just don't exist, so it is very difficult to develop in this direction when there is small demand for those features, it is why i only reimplemented older newspro existing functionality although with more powerful filters and a bit better interface.

[Paladin]

say 3 years ago many people would ask for features which you mentioned but lately the trend is simple usage pattern, maybe because of influence of nzb and p2p where all those adornments just don't exist, so it is very difficult to develop in this direction when there is small demand for those features, it is why i only reimplemented older newspro existing functionality although with more powerful filters and a bit better interface.

I have to disagree here. I think nzb files made life a lot easier as far as just having one small file to DL, then the program gets the headers you need without downloading them all, but does not always help you sort through everything to figure out what headers you have available to begin with.

This is where automation comes into play. Reading the posts on other forums, a lot of users still want, and have the need for good automation features. I think even more so these days with the amount of data to sort through. I would think most power users of UE use and want the watch feature!

If there were a way to only DL .nzb files for sets that contain them, that would help your DB stay thinner I am kidding as your program seems so good at handling headers that this is not really an issue at all. I am impressed with this part. It is the main reason I am looking at it.

I know there are web sites that generate nzb files, but again, you have to go looking and know what you want, type it in etc…. I am always of the mind set to make the computer do the work, This is what it is for. It is just nice for the program to “collect” items of interest for you, that’s all.

I mainly use my newsreader, 95% of the time, for an off line Tivo. I use it to get TV or radio shows I may have missed or want to watch on a regular basis that I do not have time to see. So the automation option is important for this type of application. When the latest shows get posted, they are sorted through with the automation and are waiting in a folder to get flagged by me, or they just get downloaded automatically. I then have another program that does the unpacking/extracting for me.

Now with all of that said, the suggestion you mentioned above should do just fine. I now have a way to watch and flag my wanted data and have it easily viewable in one spot with the queue button I added. Having them sit at the bottom of the queue is not the cleanest way but will work just fine.

I was only suggesting a way to make a “copy” of the header data in separate folders that could be queued from there, not mess with the DB itself in anyway, sorry for the confusion.

there is small demand for those features, it is why i only reimplemented older newspro existing functionality although with more powerful filters and a bit better interface. .

Thinking that your users are not power users, and only utilizing the minimum amount of effort on a feature because you assume they do not want it, is selling your user base short. But hey! Maybe I am totally wrong and most users here actually do not care about the watch/automation features. Maybe it is just me

**** I want to be VERY clear here!****
This is YOUR program and it is how you want it. I am NOT coming here and telling you what to do or how it should be done. Who am I to do that? I can only mention what I have observed from other users and make my own suggestions.

I will just utilize work a rounds of what is currently implemented if I decide this is the program for me. Overall I like the program a lot. It is like Agent on steroids!

Thanks for the advice and keep up the good work.